Last night at the club meeting Paul mentioned the idea of having a 600 Open Non-Wing class in addition to the other established classes at Deming for Clay Cup this year if he can find a sponsor.
The idea of having a regular 600 Non-Wing class was also discussed.
It was mentioned at the meeting that you would not be allowed to run the same car in both classes. If you wanted to run both classes you would be required to have two different cars.
I want to know how many people would run a 600 non-wing car on a weekly basis. I don't mean, how many of you like the idea of it. I want to know if there is a genuine interest in asking Paul to creat a 600 Non-wing class and how many of you, if there were a non-wing class would race non-wing either exclusively or with a second car?
If for any reason your uncomfortable posting your response on here you can send it to me at ksmauck@comcast.net .
Thanks, Kelly
-- Edited by ksmauck on Wednesday 5th of January 2011 01:59:49 PM
29Sleepy said
Jan 5 1:51 PM, 2011
Would love to see a full time non-wing class. If track commits to a full schedule, I would definitely consider running.
CamSmith17 said
Jan 5 6:49 PM, 2011
29Sleepy wrote:
Would love to see a full time non-wing class. If track commits to a full schedule, I would definitely consider running.
agreed
RRyan said
Jan 7 8:55 AM, 2011
yes we would be interested
Derek Holmwood said
Jan 7 3:58 PM, 2011
Why cant we run 1 car wingless and winged and just pay 2 separate entries? I cant think of more than 4 guys that can afford 2 cars and if thats the case were just going to reduce the 600 winged classes to start another. If we allow guys to run the same car in both classes, the entry for both classes would be a lot better and guys wont have to make a decision to do one or the other.
29Sleepy said
Jan 7 4:30 PM, 2011
The setup differences... I changed all 4 bars, both Rt offsets, stagger, and still could have done more to get the car where I want it.
It wouldn't align to the Cali classes, but I think a wingless "A Class" would be the right fit for Deming's weekly folks. Would fit nicely between 600R and Multi. Low cost option for 600r guys to move up to- Pull the wings & plates. Low cost option for the 600open guys who would prefer NOT to chase a full multi class, but can't come close to the 600R weight. I see this as a way to pull a few cars from each class, so you don't have an impact on overall car count.
MPH Racing said
Jan 7 7:10 PM, 2011
I also think an "A-class" or last years rules would be a good idea. It would make for an affordable, but competitive class. I would race a non-wing class if we had it.
ksmauck said
Jan 7 8:50 PM, 2011
Derek Holmwood wrote:
Why cant we run 1 car wingless and winged and just pay 2 separate entries? I cant think of more than 4 guys that can afford 2 cars and if thats the case were just going to reduce the 600 winged classes to start another. If we allow guys to run the same car in both classes, the entry for both classes would be a lot better and guys wont have to make a decision to do one or the other.
All valid questions. At the meeting Paul mentioned the possibility of having a non-wing class at Clay Cup if he were to find a sponsor for the purse. He made it very clear that you would not be able to run 1 car in both classes and I think he is basing that on exactly the type of things that Mr. Turner pointed out.
As you know we attempted non-wing races last season with little success and I think primarily because, unfortunately, many have a difficult time making the adjustment between the two out on the track. I saw a ton of wrecks last year because people went into the corner without a wing on their car as if they had a wing on it.
The point would be to have a class of cars with drivers/racers that were comitted to their class and were set-up to run their particular class, not just making a few quick half ass changes and going out there to run.
Also, last year we had 50 cars run in the 600 class and nearly 30 cars on most nights. The 600 restricted class had an extremely high car count as well. I don't think creating a non-wing class would bankrupt either the 600 or the 600 restricted classes.
Most of this may be besides the point. At the meeting the idea was presented about having a full-time 600 non-wing class. As the club president I would like to know how the members feel and if we would have enough support to take the idea to Paul and be able to give him some solid feedback with real numbers so he can make an informed business decision.
-- Edited by ksmauck on Friday 7th of January 2011 08:50:56 PM
Westy said
Jan 7 8:56 PM, 2011
We have a second car we would run for sure in the wingless class as well as run our 600r.
CamSmith17 said
Jan 7 10:16 PM, 2011
ksmauck wrote:
Derek Holmwood wrote:
Why cant we run 1 car wingless and winged and just pay 2 separate entries? I cant think of more than 4 guys that can afford 2 cars and if thats the case were just going to reduce the 600 winged classes to start another. If we allow guys to run the same car in both classes, the entry for both classes would be a lot better and guys wont have to make a decision to do one or the other.
All valid questions. At the meeting Paul mentioned the possibility of having a non-wing class at Clay Cup if he were to find a sponsor for the purse. He made it very clear that you would not be able to run 1 car in both classes and I think he is basing that on exactly the type of things that Mr. Turner pointed out.
As you know we attempted non-wing races last season with little success and I think primarily because, unfortunately, many have a difficult time making the adjustment between the two out on the track. I saw a ton of wrecks last year because people went into the corner without a wing on their car as if they had a wing on it.
The point would be to have a class of cars with drivers/racers that were comitted to their class and were set-up to run their particular class, not just making a few quick half ass changes and going out there to run.
Also, last year we had 50 cars run in the 600 class and nearly 30 cars on most nights. The 600 restricted class had an extremely high car count as well. I don't think creating a non-wing class would bankrupt either the 600 or the 600 restricted classes.
Most of this may be besides the point. At the meeting the idea was presented about having a full-time 600 non-wing class. As the club president I would like to know how the members feel and if we would have enough support to take the idea to Paul and be able to give him some solid feedback with real numbers so he can make an informed business decision.
-- Edited by ksmauck on Friday 7th of January 2011 08:50:56 PM
With any new situation whether it be a new track or a new car or a new class there is a learning curve and a grace period.... It was noticeable on the non wing dates because it was 10 or 15 drivers learning to drive without a wing rather then just 1 or 2 rookies learning to drive with the wing on because most have driven with a wing before therefore having a long show due to multiple yellows and reds... Pulling the plug on the non wing races last year and I think the year before? after 2 races did not let the drivers learn or adapt to it... You have to let it build and the drivers mature and then can have the best racing around... I personally think the 2 non wing nights we had last year we had the nicest track of the year slick from the bottom to the top put that together with winged cars on the same night and you would definately bring alot more excitement especially in the northwest where there isnt any non wing action...
Derek Holmwood said
Jan 7 11:03 PM, 2011
I just think we should leave the decision to a car owner weather he or she wants to run one car in both classes some people wont, some people will. I ran 2 cars in 4 classes at Tulsa and never had a problem. If a guy has to make a million changes then they should bring two cars but some guys dont need to and might like the opportunity to do both winged and wingless. We can just put one class between the two to give time to remove the wings. Like I said if you dont want to you dont have to but if you want to you should be able to
ksmauck said
Jan 7 11:26 PM, 2011
Thanks for the input Derek and I will pass it on when I approach Paul about this topic.
I can't debate his rationale behind the 1 car 1 class philosophy entirely other than to say he wants to have competitive racing in every class that is enjoyable to watch from the fans perspective and as safe as possible for the racers.
I do not believe the concern is that nobody can make the adjustments between a wing and non wing car between races but that many people can't make the adjustments (and I'm talking about both to their car and mentally) hit the track and be competitive.
Last year we had several programmed non-wing events, as you know. We quickly did away with those as Cam pointed out. Primarily the reason for doing so is that the racing was pathetic from the fans perspective and fans began to leave because they got sick and tired of watching yellow after yellow followed by red flag after red flag and primarily due to the fact that people were driving into the corner like they still had a wing on their car.
I think Paul would count on the fact that most people can't and/or wouldn't put two cars on the track (wing and non-wing) and instead would hope racers would focus on one class and being competitive in that class by setting up their car properly and constantly being mentally in tuned with the style of racing.
-- Edited by ksmauck on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:31:37 PM
Schmidt12 said
Jan 8 10:47 AM, 2011
Hayden would run a car in the 600 non-wing class every week.
MPH Racing said
Jan 8 11:48 AM, 2011
I would run non-wing everyweek also.
JM Racing said
Jan 8 8:09 PM, 2011
there are three races left in salem come down and see if you like to run non-wing jan 15th and 29th one feb 12th and if you are looking for a good non-wing car i have 2 for ya call 503 -318-9804
spiritone said
Jan 9 12:34 PM, 2011
I think sleepy has the right idea. With the rule change that is makeing the wing class a lot more expensive we need a class inbetween. A non-wing class with engine rules going back to stock engines so you could move up from restricted class would make alot of sense.
ksmauck said
Jan 9 1:17 PM, 2011
So I have two questions I think worth asking:
#1 If you had a non-wing class do you think it would make much of a difference of whether the motor was bone stock or semi-open like our current 600 rules? Many I've talked to have said they don't think a built motor would provide much, if any, benefit in a non-wing car at Deming.
#2 Paul had mentioned at the meeting (with regard to Clay Cup) that if he had a non-wing class it would be the same motor rules as the 600 Open class. Which of you that indicate you would run the non-wing would do it even if the rules for the motor were the same as the open class?
ksmauck said
Jan 9 1:23 PM, 2011
Based upon these posts it looks like we would only have 6 cars interested in running a weekly non-wing schedule if you were only able to run 1 car in each class.
I know there are a lot of people who do not get on here so if you are aware of anyone else please let me know otherwise I find it hard to believe that Paul would even consider this.
29Sleepy said
Jan 9 4:42 PM, 2011
It's a first to flinch deal. Track owner wants to see a car count to start a class, drivers want to see a class before they commit...
I can see the point that motor will mean less without wings. That said, I still think the low-cost option would fit our program better. Maybe setup a weight differential to even out w/ the out of towners for clay cup.
MPH Racing said
Jan 9 5:27 PM, 2011
Here is some rules that I came up with, I think they would work pretty well. What does everyone else think?
1.1 Engine: Stock 600cc, stock carbs. Injected with power commander allowed with alcohol. No Flat slide carbs, Stock throttle bodies allowed, Cam gears that are slotted, redrilled or altered are illegal. Internal charging system components must remain in motor. Stock appearing ignition. No porting, polishing or milling of heads. No milling of block. Billet Boots allowed. No Titanium internal parts (Unless Stock on engine production). No forced Induction (Turbo, Supercharging, ect.) Must have transmission with all stock gears in working order. In-car adjustments allowed.
1.2 Weight Limit: 725lbs (Stock), 750 (Open Head formerly Deming 2010 rules), 775 (Multi) with driver
1.3 Tire rule: Right rear 38 or harder American Racer or equivalentHoosier.
-- Edited by MPH Racing on Sunday 9th of January 2011 05:29:05 PM
-- Edited by MPH Racing on Sunday 9th of January 2011 05:39:02 PM
djames said
Jan 10 6:04 AM, 2011
The way I understood, Paul didn't have a problem with someone running two cars, he didn't want guys pulling and replacing their wings on one car to run two classes.
ksmauck said
Jan 10 8:44 AM, 2011
Your correct Doug. You can run 2 cars but not 1 in both classes was the idea.
96-Hamilton-96 said
Jan 11 6:50 PM, 2011
I think if your going to have a non wing 600 and a winged 600 you cant have two different motor rules between the two classes. Maybe a 25lb difference in weight? Let the semi multi and bone stockers run together at the end of five races if there is a extreme advantage due to motors put a wieght penalty on them? Just my thought.
Devo
ksmauck said
Jan 12 9:45 AM, 2011
Hey Devo the 5 race thing is completely seperate from what were talking about here.
Paul mentioned at the meeting the possibility of adding a non-wing event to the Clay Cup Nationals this year. Initially he said 1 car per class. He might be changing his mind on that.
A member or two at the meeting expanded on the idea of adding it to clay cup and making a non-wing class for a weekly show at Deming. This wasn't Paul's idea but there has been club interest in a non-wing class hence the reason for the questions and soliciting of input.
JEngler said
Jan 21 10:16 AM, 2011
I would run non-wing if the class got started and it followed the open motor rules we have now just due to the fact I have made changes since the posting of them.
-- Edited by JEngler on Friday 21st of January 2011 10:19:35 AM
The idea of having a regular 600 Non-Wing class was also discussed.
It was mentioned at the meeting that you would not be allowed to run the same car in both classes. If you wanted to run both classes you would be required to have two different cars.
I want to know how many people would run a 600 non-wing car on a weekly basis. I don't mean, how many of you like the idea of it. I want to know if there is a genuine interest in asking Paul to creat a 600 Non-wing class and how many of you, if there were a non-wing class would race non-wing either exclusively or with a second car?
If for any reason your uncomfortable posting your response on here you can send it to me at ksmauck@comcast.net .
Thanks,
Kelly
-- Edited by ksmauck on Wednesday 5th of January 2011 01:59:49 PM
Why cant we run 1 car wingless and winged and just pay 2 separate entries? I cant think of more than 4 guys that can afford 2 cars and if thats the case were just going to reduce the 600 winged classes to start another. If we allow guys to run the same car in both classes, the entry for both classes would be a lot better and guys wont have to make a decision to do one or the other.
As you know we attempted non-wing races last season with little success and I think primarily because, unfortunately, many have a difficult time making the adjustment between the two out on the track. I saw a ton of wrecks last year because people went into the corner without a wing on their car as if they had a wing on it.
The point would be to have a class of cars with drivers/racers that were comitted to their class and were set-up to run their particular class, not just making a few quick half ass changes and going out there to run.
Also, last year we had 50 cars run in the 600 class and nearly 30 cars on most nights. The 600 restricted class had an extremely high car count as well. I don't think creating a non-wing class would bankrupt either the 600 or the 600 restricted classes.
Most of this may be besides the point. At the meeting the idea was presented about having a full-time 600 non-wing class. As the club president I would like to know how the members feel and if we would have enough support to take the idea to Paul and be able to give him some solid feedback with real numbers so he can make an informed business decision.
-- Edited by ksmauck on Friday 7th of January 2011 08:50:56 PM
I just think we should leave the decision to a car owner weather he or she wants to run one car in both classes some people wont, some people will. I ran 2 cars in 4 classes at Tulsa and never had a problem. If a guy has to make a million changes then they should bring two cars but some guys dont need to and might like the opportunity to do both winged and wingless. We can just put one class between the two to give time to remove the wings. Like I said if you dont want to you dont have to but if you want to you should be able to
Thanks for the input Derek and I will pass it on when I approach Paul about this topic.
I can't debate his rationale behind the 1 car 1 class philosophy entirely other than to say he wants to have competitive racing in every class that is enjoyable to watch from the fans perspective and as safe as possible for the racers.
I do not believe the concern is that nobody can make the adjustments between a wing and non wing car between races but that many people can't make the adjustments (and I'm talking about both to their car and mentally) hit the track and be competitive.
Last year we had several programmed non-wing events, as you know. We quickly did away with those as Cam pointed out. Primarily the reason for doing so is that the racing was pathetic from the fans perspective and fans began to leave because they got sick and tired of watching yellow after yellow followed by red flag after red flag and primarily due to the fact that people were driving into the corner like they still had a wing on their car.
I think Paul would count on the fact that most people can't and/or wouldn't put two cars on the track (wing and non-wing) and instead would hope racers would focus on one class and being competitive in that class by setting up their car properly and constantly being mentally in tuned with the style of racing.
-- Edited by ksmauck on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:31:37 PM
there are three races left in salem come down and see if you like to run non-wing jan 15th and 29th one feb 12th and if you are looking for a good non-wing car i have 2 for ya call 503 -318-9804
So I have two questions I think worth asking:
#1 If you had a non-wing class do you think it would make much of a difference of whether the motor was bone stock or semi-open like our current 600 rules? Many I've talked to have said they don't think a built motor would provide much, if any, benefit in a non-wing car at Deming.
#2 Paul had mentioned at the meeting (with regard to Clay Cup) that if he had a non-wing class it would be the same motor rules as the 600 Open class. Which of you that indicate you would run the non-wing would do it even if the rules for the motor were the same as the open class?
Based upon these posts it looks like we would only have 6 cars interested in running a weekly non-wing schedule if you were only able to run 1 car in each class.
I know there are a lot of people who do not get on here so if you are aware of anyone else please let me know otherwise I find it hard to believe that Paul would even consider this.
Here is some rules that I came up with, I think they would work pretty well. What does everyone else think?
1.1 Engine: Stock 600cc, stock carbs. Injected with power commander allowed with alcohol. No Flat slide carbs, Stock throttle bodies allowed, Cam gears that are slotted, redrilled or altered are illegal. Internal charging system components must remain in motor. Stock appearing ignition. No porting, polishing or milling of heads. No milling of block. Billet Boots allowed. No Titanium internal parts (Unless Stock on engine production). No forced Induction (Turbo, Supercharging, ect.) Must have transmission with all stock gears in working order. In-car adjustments allowed.
1.2 Weight Limit: 725lbs (Stock), 750 (Open Head formerly Deming 2010 rules), 775 (Multi) with driver
1.3 Tire rule: Right rear 38 or harder American Racer or equivalent Hoosier.
-- Edited by MPH Racing on Sunday 9th of January 2011 05:29:05 PM
-- Edited by MPH Racing on Sunday 9th of January 2011 05:39:02 PM
Paul mentioned at the meeting the possibility of adding a non-wing event to the Clay Cup Nationals this year. Initially he said 1 car per class. He might be changing his mind on that.
A member or two at the meeting expanded on the idea of adding it to clay cup and making a non-wing class for a weekly show at Deming. This wasn't Paul's idea but there has been club interest in a non-wing class hence the reason for the questions and soliciting of input.
-- Edited by JEngler on Friday 21st of January 2011 10:19:35 AM