DO DRIVERS IN THE 600 CLASS KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE GAS PEDAL AND BRAKE PEDAL AND MORE SO HOW TO USE THEM..... PARENTS NEED TO GET CONTROL OF THERE KIDS AND HOW THEY DRIVE BEFORE SOMEONE GETS HURT... AND MORE EQUIPMENT IS DESTROYED !!! 

what the heck..It's not an age thing.It's a driver thing.THere has been wrecks with all...New drivers and ones that has been there awhile.

                       MMR

I've got to agree with BMS.  That crash happenned right behind our pit area.  I stood there in total disbelief and watched 2 cars plow into Michael Palmgren without ever lifting off the throttle.  Where the heck were those drivers looking??

I also had a very good view of exactly how the whole thing started.  A clear case of way too little experience to be in cars of this caliber and speed.

Personally, I am glad that they have allowed the younger drivers in the 600 class.  That way, we don't have to deal with them in the 250s.  

A wise man once told me that "if you aren't a part of the solution, you're part of the problem".  So now lets take this negative and make something positive out of it.  What can we do as a club to promote more responsible driving?? 

Here are some of my thoughts.

Develop a drivers advisory board that can provide positive feedback to the Jr. Sprint drivers.  This could help them develop good driving habits instead of bad.  One thing I see constantly in the Jr Sprints is the drivers looking around to see where other cars are.  This is a very bad habit to develop, because once you get going faster, you travel a long ways in the second it takes to look side to side.  Along those lines, maybe we could have driving seminars to be taught by experienced drivers.  Or even car owner seminars taught by experienced car owners.  Somehow we need to install more respectful and more thoughtful driving patterns out of our younger drivers. 

As a second recomendation, I believe the track should consider short term (one or two week) suspensions for those committing flagrant rough driving violations.  We've seen lots of equipment torn up and a lot of the time the drivers come back the next week and do the same thing.  Maybe sitting at home a week or two would give them some more time to think about it.  This doesn't apply just to the younger drivers, but all of them. 

OK I've thrown out some ideas, if anybody else is interested in making a difference, please join in. 

Galen Turner

GALEN,

I MUST SAY WHAT YOU WROTE IS NICELY SAID, I WAS AND AM A BIT FRUSTRATED BY THE WAY A FEW DRIVERS ARE DRIVING, THAT WRECK WAS PROBALLY WORTH IN THE AREA 8,000 TO 10,000 DOLLARS WORTH OF DAMAGE TO CARS.. ABSOLUTLY STUPID....OUR LIST OF PARTS .

TOP WING, NOSE WING, COMPLETE FRONT AXLE, BOOTH FRONT SHOCKS, BOOTH FRONT WHEELS AND TIRES DESTROYED,RADIATOR, AND RADIATOR SHROUD,FRONT HOOD, BOOTH SIDE PANELS, WING TREE POSTS RADIUS RODS AND WHATEVER ELSE WE HAVENT FOUND..PLUS THE FACT THAT BLAKE IS A LITTLE ON THE SORE SIDE.. I WILL SAY THAT IN TALKING WITH PAUL HE DID MAKE THE SAME COMMENT GALEN ABOUT THE ADVISORY BOARD COMMITTEE....TO HAVE THE SAME CARS ALWAYS INVOLVED.... WE DO NEED TO GET CONTROL...WE DO NEED TO HELP THEM OR PARK THEM..WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GAIN CONTROL.

vpmotorsports00 wrote:

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With all that said I think what would possibly be a good idea to is imput a rule maybe not this year but the following that to race a class like 600 there should be no way that drivers from jr sprints can just jump right into them. I feel that some 250 experience might be a good thing for drivers before jumping into a 600. I feel a rule or something to that affect should be placed to have atleast a season of 250 experince or certain amount of races before moving into the hgiher classes. That will also impove the size of the 250 classes as they seem to be suffering and not having very big class sizes as is.......... just a thought.

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Galen,  You bring up valid points, however "the kids" aren't the only problem. You give no credit to "the kids" for what they have acomplished. D. Huson track record holder, J. Peterson former track record holder. B. Brigge former track record holder, J. Peterson fast time all classes. We have a very talented, young & upcoming driver pool! I have watched as "seasoned { I won't say old} driver's have made costly mistakes. I doubt any driver who post's on this thread can rightly say they haven't made a mistake on the track!!!!!  AGE IS NOT THE ISSUE! Driver's making split second decisions, IS the issue! It's very easy to look back at an incident and analyze all the decisions one might have made ("kid's" or seasoned drivers) and come up with a better one.

  A review board is an interesting thought, but that is what we have track officals for. Coming from 1/4 midgets I have observed  first hand what "JUDGING" is like. I have been a JUDGE and my driver has been JUDGED. There are as many views and opinions as JUDGES! A good reason to limit the # of JUDGES!  I believe, if you talked to Paul, he would tell you that all of the new drivers (regardless of age) abilities have been evaluated by himself and other track officals over the course of the season. AS far as a new rule, Section VIII par. 8.2 allows for a 5 person driver committe. We just need members to come to the winter meetings and volunteer.

As far as taking away an opportunity for track/seat time, sitting a driver out, defeats the purpose gaining experience through seat time and becoming a better driver!

   I agree that bringing a driver up through the classes is a great idea. The Lemleys have a great "Farm" system in place now. Many tracks do not run a 250 class, some have a restricted 600 class (Visalia is one) for the Jr. Sprints to move into, others have nothing. But, there is no precident for restricting anyone of any legal age or skill level, experinced or not, who has the money, time and desire to race, to jump into a car of the upper classes (600 or 1200) and enter a feature event!

  Yes, my driver is one of "The Kids", so one might say I may be bias, Oh well. Every race has at least a few "racing incidents, if it's bad enough to concern you, respectfully talk to a track offical, they interen will respectfully dicuss the issue  with the driver (it happens every week), if it is persistant, the track officals will watch the driver more closely and use that dreaded black flag more often. 

I can't believe  I've been so long winded on this issue. I also believe no view is nesessarily the right or wrong view. It's great that we have this forum to vent, dicuss, debate or what ever. Keep it up!!!!! Doug Brown 96X 600 MadMackRace@yahoo.com

As a "seasoned" driver at Deming, i have seen many racing incidents in the past few years that have shocked me.  While i disagree with those of you who say that age (and what goes along with it) has absolutely nothing to do with some of the incidents that have happened lately, i agree that everyone makes mistakes now and then.  But it is also important to not just discount it as an "accident or mistake" when we see the same recurring trends from many of the same drivers. 

Here is part of my take on the problem, and take it as you may (this is my opinion based upon what i have observed).  First, i will comment that I would be parked by my car owner (father) if i made such irrational decisions as many drivers have made lately, and rightfully so.  This raises a new issue that must be considered, particularly for the younger drivers.  I was once a young driver, and understand that younger drivers do not always understand the mistakes they are making, and the things that they absolutely cannot do, or must improve upon immediately.  These "mistakes" will not resolve themselves, particularly in the case of younger drivers, they often will not realize that they did something wrong.  For this reason, it is absolutely critical that the parents of the younger drivers are giving them honest and unbiased feedback on their driving, mistakes, errors (and yes, tell them when they do something wrong, or if something is their fault)  I have observed parents in the pits this year supporting their kids (who were clearly at fault) as though they never did anything wrong, time and time again.  Condoning bad driving habits does not benefit the driver at fault, or the competitors that race with him/her on a weekly basis. This not only eliminates the chance that younger drivers can understand their mistakes, and make the necessary improvements, but it also dramatically reduces their ability to develop as a driver.  Case in point, driver improvements only come from a combination of experience, and feedback.  When either element is missing, one cannot expect development of driving habits and style that will lead to future success in racing. 

One final comment that I would like to make is that I have noticed many people often fail to recognize that there is a BIG difference between being a good driver and capable, and just being able to go fast.  Anyone can put down a fast lap (given the equipment to do so), but the drivers abilities under discussion in this thread are the abilities and actions observed when there are other cars, equipment, and safety of competitors at stake. 

I am very concerned about these issues, and hope that together the members of the club and the racing families supporting deming speedway can work together to implement the necessary programs to ensure that friday night racing will be fun, fair, and safe for all.

Eric Turner

#92 250

A few points i also intended to mention:

This is not only a problem in the 600's, but all classes at deming speedway.  Furthermore, someone mentioned that they "heard rumors" about the elimination of the 250 class next year.  I hope that all of you consider what the 250 class has brought to deming speedway over the years, as not only a stepping stone for the bigger classes at deming and other forms of racing, but also an affordable class than many drivers prefer to compete in.   Beleive it or not, many people actually like the 250 class, how the cars drive (and what it takes to drive them while shifting 4 times in 11 seconds), and would prefer to run the 250 class over other classes that participate at Deming on a regular basis.  I know that I am not the only 250 driver that feels this way.  Thanks for reading my comments, and please take them for what they are worth.

Eric

DOUG,

WHAT YOU HAVE SAID, IS WELL SAID AND I MUST SAY THAT I AM IMPRESSED BY HOW PEOPLE HAVE HANDLED THERE COMMENTS ONLINE HERE.. AS ONE KNOWS I AM NOT SHY IN VOICING MY OPINION,, AND I KNOW THAT MYSELF AS A DRIVER WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE WILD SIDE HOWEVER I DID MAKE ALL THE MAIN EVENTS...I WILL SAY THAT MACK HAS DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB DRIVING HIS CAR BLAKE HAS SAID AT LEAST WHEN HE RACES AROUND MACK HE KNOWS WHAT LINE HE IS GOING TO DRIVE..A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION PLUS MACK HAS A GREAT ATTITUDE ALWAYS WILLING TO SLIDE OVER INTO OUR PIT AND RAISE A LITTLE CAIN... THE SPEEDS THAT THESE CARS ARE GOING IS WELL LETS JUST SAY WOULD YOU LET THEM RUN A 1200???? I DONT THINK SO BUT WHATS THE TRACK RECORD TIMES BETWEEN THE 2 CLASSES 600- 10.50  AND THE 1200- 10.43 OR RIGHT THERE.. THESE CARS ARE HAULING ASS. ONE MUST BE ABLE TO THINK ONE MUST BE ABLE TO DRIVE AND MOST OF ALL ONE MUST HAVE THE RESPECT OF HIS OR HER FELLOW DRIVERS..  SO AS PEOPLE READ THIS FORUM AND HOPEFULLY THE PEOPLE THAT ARE READING THIS ARE THE DRIVERS AND THE CAR OWNERS OF THE DRIVERS THAT TEND TO HAVE ALL THE PROBLEMS THEY WILL SEE AND UNDERSTAND THAT THERE FELLOW DRIVERS THAT THEY ARE RACING AGAINST ARE GETTING TIRED OF HOW THEY DRIVE AND THAT THEY AND I WILL SAY AGAIN THAT THEY NEED TO GET THEMSELF UNDER CONTROL BEFORE THEY ARE TOUGHT HOW TO DRIVE UNDER CONTROL...SO YOU AS THE DRIVERS THAT READ WHAT HAS BEEN SAID, REALIZE THAT WE WANT YOU TO RACE WE JUST PREFER THAT YOU DONT DRIVE OVER YOUR HEADS.. SO AS I FINISH WITH WHAT I HAVE FELT AND WHAT I HAVE SHARED,..... LETS GO RACING AND HAVE SOME FUN

I just wish our younger drivers could have had the chance to watch Drivers of Deming's past.  I still have never seen an open class car driven as fast and smooth as Reg Valliant did in the early 90's, or watch Brian Larcom, Forest Metcalfe, and Dad run lap after lap side by side and not rub a bead lock once (for those of you who are a little young, the old red head was 250 champ in '91, and a driver at Deming before many of you were born).  I wish they could have seen REAL dry slick tracks on Sunday afternoons, with a host of homebuilt and ill handling cars putting on a great show, some wingless, the way sprint cars SHOULD be.  Perhaps it was because I was watching races at Deming sitting on a cooler at 3 years old, that I have had the opportunity to witness what I would say was an amazing amount of talented drivers pass through.  On the other hand I saw drivers who couldn't go a lap without hitting someone or something go on to be older rowdy drivers (anyone remember the SKOAL waxxem house cars, with young Bud Kaeding?)

I have no doubt that many of today's youngsters will grow into very successful drivers, and will have the financial support it takes to move on to bigger faster machines.  That being said, I must agree with my brother, that the best way to kill bad habits in the car, is for the owners to know when to give their drivers a little stern coaching.  We all know names that are associated with rough driving at Skagit, in Nascar, in the WoO.  I can't imagine that any driver enjoys that reputation.  Would you want it for your driver???

I guess I was just raised to beleive that if your goal is to try hard and raced clean, your success is up to you.  When the only goal is to win, your odds of success rely more on those around you, and you will soon become board with losing.

Respectfully,

Brandon Turner, Deming patron since 1985.

Most of our young drivers are clean.One accident does not make them dirty driver's .I  always see  parents talking with their  driver's.Also they have  plenty  of clean driver's to watch at the track now .And alot of the season driver's are more then happy to talk to them and try to help them get better.So  please try to talk to them [ as a fellow driver ]  instead of talking about them. 

                   MMR

I totally agree with you MMR. Most of newer drivers are clean drivers as well as our seasoned drivers. It's not always the driver or the crew or parents that is the reason why there is a few repeat offenders when it comes to causing recks. From sitting in the stands in the past years i have noticed with the Jr Sprint classes there should have been some kids being blackflagged that werent and the drivers thought well I got away with it that time so I should everytime and repeat it over and over again. Personally, I think the black flag needs to be used some more, yeah the drivers wont like it but needs to be done. The Jr Sprint class is a really great class to begin with for these kids, but if the officals are treating it as a beginning class and letting them get away with stuff they will never learn. Being around the Jr Class MOST of the parents told their children when they screwed up and did something that they should have been called for there were a few that never said a word to their kids. The parents would first ask, how the race went then ask them if they think they did anything wrong, if they did do something wrong and the kid didnt know it the parent would tell them.

Galen, I dont think telling the driver that is a repeat offender that he can't race for a week or two is the right thing to do. Taking away seat time only makes the situation worse, really. The driver can become frustrated with being banned for a while and take it out on other drivers again and again. The kids especially wouldnt understand why at that age.

The only way I think to fix this is crack down on the drivers, and not just the newer ones, I have seen massive wrecks out there that did not involve newer, less experienced drivers, It's not just them! Keep up the good work everyone!

Here in Indiana we have a restriced 600 class.  they put the washers under the carbs to slow the cars down.  This class is for anyone but mainly for the kids coming out of the jr. Sprint division.  This class really helps the younger kids how to drive.

just my 2 cents.

Cory Klug 27